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Post by lucinda on Apr 4, 2008 9:10:21 GMT -5
I've just started doing some long runs (over 5 hours) to get ready for the Harbison Forest 50K. This will be my first race over the HM distance.
I run very slowly and take in lots of carbs. Fortunately, my stomach isn't fussy, so I can take in just about anything. What I'm noticing is that after about four hours or so, my legs start to feel really stiff and my range of motion decreases. My legs don't feel tired or cramped or sore, they just feel STIFF. If I take a walking break, it can be hard for me to start running again. Also, I feel like I have little "warm spots" popping up at various points in my quads. It's nothing detrimental, just noticeable.
Like I said, I run slowly, take in lots of carbs (e-Fuel, Shot Bloks, etc.), probably 100 oz or so of water in 5 hours as well as S-caps every hour or so (my blood pressure runs kind of low, so salt is a good thing for me). I don't even weigh 120 lbs, so I don't need to ingest huge quantities of stuff. I guess my long runs aren't long enough to really "bonk" yet.
What can I do to avoid this stiffness? Is it just a matter of continuing these long runs and somehow adapting?
Cheers, Lucinda
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Post by colonel on Apr 4, 2008 10:35:18 GMT -5
I've never had "warm spots" on my legs. I'm anxious to hear what the experts around here say.
As for the stiffness, have you tried doing some stretches every now and then during the run? Also, did you slowly build up to the five hour runs or did you make a big jump up to that distance? I know when I first started running 16 to 18 mile runs (for my first marathon) my legs would feel very stiff when I finished. I remember it was always painful to stretch but once I did I felt much better. I would hold on to my car to steady myself and then I would squat down ... probably not a textbook stretching exercise but it helped. This would stretch the quads and the knees, which always seemed to be the two areas that tightened up the most.
Maybe when you "adapt" to the distance, this will go away.
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Post by gitagoing on Apr 4, 2008 17:18:06 GMT -5
;D Some running guru told me it was Lactic acid buildup. Just means to me that I should walk more and let the oxygen catch up to my running effort and clear it out.. I think his name was Karl King. He is quite knowledge. Karl King [karl.dani@comcast.net] he is an old guy like me, but will answer your questions. ;D When I was young I got stiff quite often. Now only occasionally. Your body does adapt to the type of stimulation given. I mostly get tired now, but I think that is also from decreasing Oxygen carrying abilities. Try more long slow training runs.
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Post by colonel on Apr 4, 2008 17:41:14 GMT -5
When I was young I got stiff quite often. Now only occasionally. Your body does adapt to the type of stimulation given. I mostly get tired now, but I think that is also from decreasing Oxygen carrying abilities. Must .... resist .... temptation .....to .... comment .... This ... is ... a .... PG rated .... forum ..... must .... resist .... must .......... resist . ...... must ...... resist ......
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Post by gitagoing on Apr 4, 2008 19:51:16 GMT -5
;D ;D An excellent answer to a member's training question, deserves a good response if the answer and advice is correct. ;D ;D Since Bag O' Sand is hesistant to respond with some positive advice, we must assume lack of talent, and a wandering mind. GUTS deserves our best response to any member's post. So get out that six pack, put on your thinking cap, your running shoes and support GUTS members wirh your experience hic hic hic. Lucinda my response has wisdom. Good luck in your training, and your 50K
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Post by lucinda on Apr 4, 2008 20:45:19 GMT -5
I've never had "warm spots" on my legs. I'm anxious to hear what the experts around here say. As for the stiffness, have you tried doing some stretches every now and then during the run? Also, did you slowly build up to the five hour runs or did you make a big jump up to that distance? I know when I first started running 16 to 18 mile runs (for my first marathon) my legs would feel very stiff when I finished. I remember it was always painful to stretch but once I did I felt much better. I would hold on to my car to steady myself and then I would squat down ... probably not a textbook stretching exercise but it helped. This would stretch the quads and the knees, which always seemed to be the two areas that tightened up the most. Maybe when you "adapt" to the distance, this will go away. Thanks, everyone, for your input. It sounds like I should just keep doing what I'm doing and the adaptations will occur. I have been building up to the longer runs. I had thought maybe it was a lactic issue and it seems walking to flush it out is what I need to do. I'm curious why there is lactic acid build up since I am running slowly and taking in lots of carbs. I think my body just needs to adapt. I do separate stretching and yoga sessions but am working on improving my range of motion and hoping to increase my stride and eventually my speed. I don't experience cramping or pain during the runs and I'm able to recover quite well afterwards. Thanks again!
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Post by colonel on Apr 4, 2008 22:12:10 GMT -5
Lucinda, Another thing that I think is important (beware, amateur advice ahead ... disregard if one of the experts gives a different, and more knowledgable opinon) is to build the length of the longer run up in a 'two steps forward, one step back' approach. At least that is what worked for me, until I built a good base.
What I mean is to do something like, 14 miles, then 12, then 16, then 14, then 18, then 16, then 20. Anotehr thing to consider is to build your total weekly miles (never more than 10% a week) for four to six weeks in a row, and then drop back about 20-30% for a week to recover a little and then start again. For example, you might do weeks of 40, 44, 48, 53, and then drop back to 40 for week. Then you could jump back to 48 the next week and begin the 10%/week growth again for another cycle.
Disclaimer: As with all advice from amateurs, you may experience side effects if you actually follow the advice. Side effects may be more common shortly after you start the training schedule. The most common side effects with amateur advice are weight loss, loss of appetite, dry mouth, skin rash, sweating, ringing in the ears, shakiness, stomach pain, agitation, anxiety, dizziness, trouble sleeping, muscle pain, nausea, fast heartbeat, sore throat, and urinating more often.
Seizures may occur (studies showed an incidence of 1/1000 - 4/1000). The chances of having seizures increases the more closely you follow the amateur's advice. Following the advice for more than 450 days increases the chance of serious side effects. If you have nausea, take the amateur's advice with a grain of salt. If you have trouble sleeping, remember to take the amateur's advice in the morning. Do not change your training schedule or actually take the amateur's advice without talking to a someone who actually knows what they are talking about.
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Post by mateoloco on Apr 8, 2008 13:41:34 GMT -5
Lucinda,
I think I know who you are (have you been coming to some Thursday night runs at Phidippides?), so I think that you have been building up your mileage and long runs after a while.
I think that the stiffness is normal, and would much likely occur much sooner if you were running at a constant pace on the road.
The whole purpose of walk breaks (Galloway walk breaks, not trail runs where you have to walk up a mountain breaks) is to avoid or push back the point at which stiffness occurs.
I would recommend, if you are not doing this already, walking early and often on your long runs. Don't wait until you are stiff and sore to walk because by then it is too late.
I have been noticing on my long runs that my glutes get really sore around 2 1/2, 3 hours, but that that pain gradually subsides and does not return. I can't explain it, but maybe you can just push through the stiffness. In my case, I need to do core strengthening exercises to avoid overuse injuries.
Finally, I do think that your body will begin to adapt, but that some stiffness and soreness is normal.
Matt
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Post by lucinda on Apr 8, 2008 18:34:37 GMT -5
Colonel,
Yes, I agree it's good to mix in a "back off" week. Sometimes that just happens naturally for me when I get too busy and "life" gets in the way -- it's a good forced back off.
Matt,
Yes, I'm the one you see at Phid. On my long runs, I am doing a 25/5 run/walk ratio. I feel pretty good with it. I don't really get muscle soreness, it's stiffness really. I will keep running and trust the adaptations to occur. I shouldn't be afraid to really slow it down if necessary....
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